The Icon Bar: CES 2010: ARM hardware roundup

Message #112863, posted by nunfetishist at 12:54, 17/1/2010, in reply to message #112860

Today's phish is trout a la creme.

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It's "NVIDIA", not "nVidia".

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Message #112864, posted by Phlamethrower at 12:56, 17/1/2010, in reply to message #112860

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What are the mixed reviews for the Touch Book about?

From what people are saying, the build quality doesn't seem to be that great - the headphone socket is recessed too far and so doesn't accept the majority of plugs, the slide locks that connect the tablet to the keyboard and hold the back of the tablet on aren't spring-loaded (although I haven't seen many people complain about it so it might not be a major issue), post-release they had to add extra "feet" to the back of the keyboard to stop the whole thing falling over backwards when the screen is open beyond 90 degrees, there are reports of things shifting round and unplugging/unsticking themselves during shipping, and there are reports that batteries aren't charging properly (although it's hard to tell whether that's a software or hardware problem).

Of course, without knowing how many units they're shipping it's a bit hard to tell how widespread these faults are. Apart from the obvious design flaws (headphone socket, slide locks, no RTC battery!) it might just be a few isolated incidents that are causing the majority of the forum chatter.

Hopefully ROOL will be able to provide a better perspective when they receive their unit.

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Message #112865, posted by Phlamethrower at 13:00, 17/1/2010, in reply to message #112863

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It's "NVIDIA", not "nVidia".

Hmm, so it is! Cheers!

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Jason Togneri

Message #112866, posted by filecore at 13:16, 17/1/2010, in reply to message #112865

The Iron Lord
and coming soon:
Haunted House

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It's "NVIDIA", not "nVidia".
Hmm, so it is! Cheers!

TIB: the site of choice for trolls, anal-retentives, and other RISC OS enthusiasts.

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Phil Mellor

Message #112867, posted by monkeyson2 at 14:35, 17/1/2010, in reply to message #112864

Please don't let them make me be a monkey butler

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From what people are saying, the build quality doesn't seem to be that great - the headphone socket is recessed too far and so doesn't accept the majority of plugs, the slide locks that connect the tablet to the keyboard and hold the back of the tablet on aren't spring-loaded (although I haven't seen many people complain about it so it might not be a major issue), post-release they had to add extra "feet" to the back of the keyboard to stop the whole thing falling over backwards when the screen is open beyond 90 degrees, there are reports of things shifting round and unplugging/unsticking themselves during shipping, and there are reports that batteries aren't charging properly (although it's hard to tell whether that's a software or hardware problem).

...otherwise OK?

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Message #112868, posted by nunfetishist at 15:25, 17/1/2010, in reply to message #112865

Today's phish is trout a la creme.

Posts: 525

It's "NVIDIA", not "nVidia".
Hmm, so it is! Cheers!

What's interesting is that it's /always/ been NVIDIA, but their old logo's typeface selection made it confusing. Everywhere else it was always all-caps. They made the problem worse with their nForce chipset. Kinda reminds me of the mess of RISC OS, Risc<halfspace>PC, and RISCOS Ltd.

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Jason Togneri

Message #112872, posted by filecore at 17:09, 17/1/2010, in reply to message #112868

The Iron Lord
and coming soon:
Haunted House

Posts: 3868

What's interesting is that it's /always/ been NVIDIA, but their old logo's typeface selection made it confusing. Everywhere else it was always all-caps.

This quite clearly looks like "nVIDIA" to me. The modern one is less obscure.

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Message #112873, posted by nunfetishist at 17:10, 17/1/2010, in reply to message #112872

Today's phish is trout a la creme.

Posts: 525

What's interesting is that it's /always/ been NVIDIA, but their old logo's typeface selection made it confusing. Everywhere else it was always all-caps.
This quite clearly looks like "nVIDIA" to me. The modern one is less obscure.

Yes, quite.

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Eric Rucker

Message #112874, posted by bhtooefr at 17:18, 17/1/2010, in reply to message #112873

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And, I do believe some of their own config files and strings in drivers use nVidia.

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Message #112876, posted by nunfetishist at 17:42, 17/1/2010, in reply to message #112874

Today's phish is trout a la creme.

Posts: 525

And, I do believe some of their own config files and strings in drivers use nVidia.

In the same way some of RISC OS's sources refer to RiscOS

If you look at any official material though, it's all quite consistent.

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Bryan Hogan

Message #112877, posted by helpful at 17:46, 17/1/2010, in reply to message #112860

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What are the mixed reviews for the Touch Book about?

There seem to have been a quite a few people who have bought one, ignoring all the warnings on the website about it being a beta product, and have then complained when they get it and find that it is, well, a bit beta!

Got mine at the end of last week and it seems quite good so far, but it is definitely still a work in progress. With all the new products listed here, it may turn out that progress has taken too long, but we'll see.

If you are in the south east of England, come along to tomorrow's (Monday 18th) ROUGOL meeting and see it for yourself.

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Peter Darnell

Message #112965, posted by PeterD at 16:54, 20/1/2010, in reply to message #112877

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Hopefully get mine next month

have had it on order since August.
Should have had it already but I randomly entered my card number into a cash machine a few times at a Christmas night out and it ate my card, two days later the Touch Book people tried to get some money from it

All sorted now.

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Message #112981, posted by Phlamethrower at 19:56, 21/1/2010, in reply to message #112877

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What are the mixed reviews for the Touch Book about?
There seem to have been a quite a few people who have bought one, ignoring all the warnings on the website about it being a beta product, and have then complained when they get it and find that it is, well, a bit beta!

Got mine at the end of last week and it seems quite good so far, but it is definitely still a work in progress. With all the new products listed here, it may turn out that progress has taken too long, but we'll see.

The problem I have is that the website always used to describe it as the hardware being final, and only the software being in beta. And yet there are/were definite hardware problems on release, with the hardware being updated post-release in order to fix them.

Anyway, my bitterness aside - it looks like they've recently bumped the spec up to 512MB RAM. No official announcement yet, but hopefully this upgrade also signifies that they've taken the time to fix some of the hardware issues that have been reported.

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Bryan Hogan

Message #112982, posted by helpful at 21:51, 21/1/2010, in reply to message #112981

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yet there are/were definite hardware problems on release, with the hardware being updated post-release in order to fix them.

Were there any hardware changes? Other than sticking two feet on the back to stop it falling over backwards!

my bitterness aside - it looks like they've recently bumped the spec up to 512MB RAM.

Your bitterness - I waited 6 months for mine and one week after it arrives the spec goes up!

But if it is only a memory upgrade that I'm not really bothered by that.

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Message #112984, posted by Phlamethrower at 22:49, 21/1/2010, in reply to message #112982

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yet there are/were definite hardware problems on release, with the hardware being updated post-release in order to fix them.
Were there any hardware changes? Other than sticking two feet on the back to stop it falling over backwards!

The only change I know of (before this RAM upgrade) has been the feet. From today's IRC log there's also a mention of a new bottom part PCB revision, but for all I know that could be the part that's in the new model with more RAM.

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Peter Darnell

Message #113411, posted by PeterD at 09:29, 17/2/2010, in reply to message #112984

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Posts: 2

Have received mine TB now, the one thing I that grabs you when you turn it on is that you have the choice of 3 operating systems at start up.
I would love to help somehow to have that increased to 4 and have RISC OS added to the list.
Now I have NO programming skills at all but If anyone can think of a way I could help please let me know.
ps Is there any version of RISC OS at all that could run on the TB now?

Peter.

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RISC OS Build On Touchbook

Message #113412, posted by trevj at 09:55, 17/2/2010, in reply to message #113411

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Peter, have you seen the following ROOL info?

Using the Cortex-A8 port

As I don't have a Touch Book myself (and am still awaiting my Beagle Board - perhaps I should cancel and get an IGEPv2 board instead) all I can say is:

ROOL forum

Good luck

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Message #113921, posted by trevj at 11:58, 8/4/2010, in reply to message #112864

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Another Qualcomm device for the list is Wistron's PurseBook (hopefully this is just a working name!).
Edit: But this is old news so perhaps it's been dropped.

[Edited by trevj at 14:54, 8/4/2010]

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Andrew Rawnsley

Message #113977, posted by arawnsley at 14:07, 15/4/2010, in reply to message #113921

R-Comp chap
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Just reading an overview of Tegra2 at hexus.net

That chip appears to have an ARM7 core in there as well as 2x Cortex A9 and so on...

Made me think (maybe stupidly) could this be harnessed by RISC OS for compatibility purposes? Could existing code be run on the Arm7 and new code be developed for the A9 cores? Probably not, so probably a stupid idea, but I did wonder if it offered an option for backwards compatibility.

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Eric Rucker

Message #113987, posted by bhtooefr at 00:27, 16/4/2010, in reply to message #113977

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The ARM7 handles things like power management.

Even if it WERE accessible from user code, it's likely an ARM7TDMI. The T means, might as well just run code directly on the Cortex-A9, as ARM7TDMI is a 32-bit only processor - the only real additional issue that the Cortex-A9 presents is unaligned load/store behavior changes, IIRC.

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Message #113991, posted by nunfetishist at 10:38, 16/4/2010, in reply to message #113987

Today's phish is trout a la creme.

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Not to mention the ARM7's clock speed is probably so puny that you might as well emulate on the Cortex.

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Message #114443, posted by trevj at 12:20, 14/5/2010, in reply to message #113991

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Has anyone heard anything of SBCs using the Cortex-A8 based Renesas SH-Mobile APE4?

Renesas exhibited at the recent embedded world 2010 and their chips have been used previously by emtrion (who also exhibited there) - e.g. SH7780-based "Boxed PC".

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Message #114444, posted by nunfetishist at 12:46, 14/5/2010, in reply to message #114443

Today's phish is trout a la creme.

Posts: 525

Has anyone heard anything of SBCs using the Cortex-A8 based Renesas SH-Mobile APE4?

Boggle. Surely given it's Renesas, and it's called a SH-Mobile APE4, it would a be SuperH core, not ARM?

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Message #114445, posted by trevj at 13:26, 14/5/2010, in reply to message #114444

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Boggle. Surely given it's Renesas, and it's called a SH-Mobile APE4, it would a be SuperH core, not ARM?

Well, that's what I thought initially. But the press release seems to indicate they've got a licensed ARM design in there.

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Message #114446, posted by nunfetishist at 13:51, 14/5/2010, in reply to message #114445

Today's phish is trout a la creme.

Posts: 525

Boggle. Surely given it's Renesas, and it's called a SH-Mobile APE4, it would a be SuperH core, not ARM?
Well, that's what I thought initially. But the press release seems to indicate they've got a licensed ARM design in there.

Well, it can only be an improvement. My experiences of SuperH have accelerated my hair loss.

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Message #114448, posted by trevj at 14:33, 14/5/2010, in reply to message #114446

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...My experiences of SuperH have accelerated my hair loss.

So perhaps the H doesn't stand for Hitachi, as I thought it did.

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Eric Rucker

Message #114450, posted by bhtooefr at 15:44, 14/5/2010, in reply to message #114445

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Good job, Renesas, at confusing everyone...

(SH-Mobile has historically been a line of SuperH stuff, not ARM.)

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Message #114495, posted by trevj at 08:46, 20/5/2010, in reply to message #114450

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Good job, Renesas, at confusing everyone...

(SH-Mobile has historically been a line of SuperH stuff, not ARM.)

They avoided my specific question asking "to what extent is the SH-Mobile APE4 (product number: R8A73720) based on the Cortex-A8 and are there any known compatibility issues?" Instead I'm told that it's "an Application Processor specifically designed to support high-end Smartphones" - blindingly obvious from the press release! They'd now like to "evaluate [the] best potential match for [my] application"... Blah, blah, blah...

However, they are listed under 'affiliations' as an ARM Processor licensee.

Edit: I've now learned that they've recently undergone a restructuring as a result of the merger with NEC. Therefore, it's anyone's guess how effectively such queries are handled!

[Edited by trevj at 12:21, 20/5/2010]

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